Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Olympics/Archive 9 Spread

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Maps, Directions, and Place Reviews

I love standards - there are so many to choose from

Now that the Olympics have come to a close, it's cleanup time. A few items immediately come to mind that I've encountered (mostly in event results). I'm sure that there are many others that can be added to the list.

I've added separate subsections for each issue I've listed. Please comment and state your preference individually in each subsection and sign each individual comment. If you have additional issues, please add them directly into the following list and add new subsections to this topic.

Oh, and if someone with more experience than I believes the discussion needs to be relocated or reorganized, go ahead.

-- Tcncv (talk) 17:48, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

Issue summary:

• Gold, silver, and bronze line items in final results tables There are two dominant styles and many variations. I think it's time to get a consensus select a standard. This was previously discussed here.
• Combined or separate name/nationality columns in event results
• Bolding or result values.
• Column names
• Notes/remarks column standardization
• References

Final results style

Two common styles were discussed here, but I think it's worth starting a fresh discussion, even if it just reaffirms the prior consensus.. Thare are many variations, but the dominant styles appear to be:

Option 1:

Option 2:

The Swimming and Athletics tended to use option 1, while Gymnastics, Rowing and many others tended to use option 2. The prior discussion favored option 2.

A side issue is figuring a way for get rank column to sort properly with the medal images present. This would probably involve the use of a hidden-text span element.

Comment Below

• Option 2 - for the same reasons in the previous discussion Basement12 (T.C) 17:57, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
• I definitely prefer option 2 as well, but the images are a little problem. They need an alt parameter to work on systems that can't display images, and even with this they render the rank column unsortable. Can this be solved? Or rather, what would we lose by simply using the numbers 1, 2, and 3? -- Jao (talk) 21:43, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

• I like colors, but I'll live if we don't use them. Reywas92^Talk 22:13, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

• Definite Option 2. Bgcolors in option 1 make reading of table contents difficult. Sort problem on medal images - use Template:Sort in format {{sort|1|[[Image:gold medal icon.svg]]}} on the medal image cells. Take care with sortable table Time column - events with times both less than and greater than 1 minute won't sort correctly. Yboy83 (talk) 22:17, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

• Yboy83 stole my words. I also thought about tweaking with {{Gold medal}}, {{Silver medal}} and {{Bronze medal}} so that there would be an option to hide the "Gold", "Silver" and "Bronze" text, and one could use these templates in results tables, as well. But I guess {{Sort}} can do the job. Parutakupiu (talk) 22:45, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

• Option 2. As a prior proponent of option 1, I now wee the light (and the white space). -- Tcncv (talk) 23:26, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

• Option 2, clearly. I have been using this style exclusively when I have been reformatting older results pages (2004 and earlier). I hate the old icons with a passion, and I really think that setting the bgcolor for the entire row is really ugly and unnecessary. -- Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 17:39, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
• Option 2, much better looking. -- Jonel (Speak to me) 18:20, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

• As I write this, it occurred to me that we could use templates named {{Gold1}}, {{Silver2}}, and {{Bronze3}} plus variants such as {{Gold01}} and maybe {{Gold001}} to handle larger lists. They're available, short, easy to remember, and could support sorting plus possibly an alt-text value that Jao suggested above. -- Tcncv (talk) 03:22, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Combined or separate name/nationality columns in event results

Many result tables have a single column that uses the {{flagIOCathlete}}. Many others have separate columns that use no template for the athelete and <nowiki>{{flagIOCathlete}} for the nationality. In the latter case, should athlete or nationality be listed first.

Option 1:

Option 2:

Option 3:

I'd recommend option 3 since it allows for sorting by either athelete or nationality and also give the athelete greater prominence. A side issue is getting the Atheletes to sort by last name. The {{sortname}} template can be used for this, but it requires alot of work.

Comment Below

• Option 1 - the template used links nicely to both the athlete and the nations olympic summary, the flag and abbreviation gives the country and looks neater than having more columns and full country name. Basement12 (T.C) 18:00, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

• Option 3 as sortability by country is nice in large tables. It seems that few sports have these though, and the sortability is rather redundant in a list of 6-10 athletes, so I certainly see the case for option 1 (which I agree looks neater). In any case, I don't think we have to go to any lengths to sort athletes by last name. If someone wants to find a person in a list, it's probable they know the first name too. -- Jao (talk) 18:14, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
• I prefer option 1 for the looks but 3 is indeed better for sorting purposes. What about using 1 just for medal section while 3 for overall results? (with times and all that) --Tone 19:13, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
• Option 1 is better to look at, but option 3 is better for sorting. Column order in option 2 could be used for team events the NOC is perhaps more of interest than team members? Yboy83 (talk) 22:17, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
• Option 1 is the best for most of the results pages, but I concur that option 3 is best suited for long tables listing multiple athletes from the same NOC. Parutakupiu (talk) 22:58, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

• Option 3, but for the result tables. Let the medal tables be, since sorting is not necessary (at least at the event level). As a compromize and in recognition or the work required to change existing tables, I would recognize option 1 as an acceptable alternative. Thus we could support conversion to option 3, but not require it. -- Tcncv (talk) 23:33, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
• I don't have a preference either way for event results pages (except, I suppose, against option 2). I note that there are some other options available for option 3. Instead of  Germany, we could also use the longer  Germany (GER), or the shorter  GER. This last option is closer in style to option 1, perhaps, but matches some consensus in WP:Manual of style (flags), where we say Accompany flags with country names. It also makes for a clean, compact column layout, as codes are always 3 letters vs. variable country names. -- Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 17:46, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
• NOT option 2, otherwise I don't particularly care. The compactness of option 1 is nice, especially for pages in which numerous columns are needed for results. However, option 3 is nice in that it is more clear to those who do not necessarily recognize flags and IOC codes, associating them with the correct nation, quickly. In any case, the individual should be more prominent than the nation. -- Jonel (Speak to me) 18:20, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

-- Tcncv (talk) 03:35, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Bolding result values

I've seen this in several result tables, but don't think it is necessary if there is a single result value. When there are multiple result values, bolding can be useful to make key results stand out, such as in Athletics at the 2008 Summer Olympics - Men's long jump#Final.

Comment Below

• support - But only for events like the long jump when one attempt/value overrides all others Basement12 (T.C) 18:04, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
• Agree with Basement12. Reywas92^Talk 22:13, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
• Support, it's totally logic in my perspective. Boldfacing is used to highlight, give emphasis to something, so it's reasonable it should only be used in events where classification is a result of the best of multiples attempts. Parutakupiu (talk) 23:08, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
• Support Just to clarify what I suggested: Bold should not be used for results, except when needed to make final scores stand out from other details in complex listings. -- Tcncv (talk) 23:23, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
• Conditional support. It should not be used for listings with single result values, such as Athletics at the 2008 Summer Olympics - Men's Marathon, but can be used for listings with a "total" column for a such as Triathlon at the 2008 Summer Olympics. Note that if bolding is added, it should be with '''triple quote''' syntax and not with !table heading syntax, as the latter will result in a different background colour in the table in addition to the bold text. -- Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 18:03, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
• I think we're all in agreement here, no? Bolding only in the instance where one value from multiple result values should stand out? -- Jonel (Speak to me) 18:20, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

-- Tcncv (talk) 03:34, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Column names

Understandable, different events have different table formmatting requirements, but for the common elements, it would be nice to have a labeling standard.

• Should the finish order by "Rank", "Position", or something else? ("Rank" seend to be dominant.)
• Should the participant column be "Name", "Athlete", "Participant"?
• Should the NOC column be "Country", "Nationality", or "NOC"?
• Should the result be ""Result", "Mark", or the more event specific "Time", "Distance", "Height", "Points" or "Score"?
• Should tables have "Remarks" or "Notes"

Comment Below

• Rank, athlete, nationality (i'd prefer this although this may be controversal for eg GB), more specific (where possible) if various use result, and notes are the options that i'd prefer Basement12 (T.C) 18:09, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
• Rank, athlete, country. Country is more common, besides, some NOC still represent a country but not a state (probably a confusing comment but I don't know when country would be controversial while nationality is clearly a problem - naturalized sportsmen and so on). --Tone 19:11, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

• Rank, Athlete, Country, Score, Notes. I don't think NOC will be understood as well as country. Score is best for me, but something else when relevant os fine. I do not like Remarks or Mark at all, and Nationality is not always correct. Reywas92^Talk 22:13, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
• I like Rank, Athlete, Country, xxx, Notes, where "xxx" is the appropriate measurement unit for the event. As for "Country", that's what the Official Page uses. -- Tcncv (talk) 23:12, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
• I also support the Rank, Athlete, Country, xxxx, Notes, per Tcncv above. NOC and Nationality get a bit technical, and I figure that if there are specific cases where the NOC and "country" differ, those would be sufficiently explained at a place such as "[Country] at the Olympics". Peloneous^tc 23:17, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
• I say Rank, Athlete, Country (NOC is more precise, but we'd have to explain it with a note, or using {{tooltip}}), Time or Result (when time is not the result unit), Notes. Parutakupiu (talk) 23:20, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
• I prefer Rank, Athlete, NOC, Result, Remarks. "Country" is a term which will invariably invite criticisms from those who insist on being "politically correct" (for in theory there isn't a country called "Chinese Taipei", but "Taiwan", for example. Similarly, some people raise eyebrows when referring to Hong Kong, China as a "country".)--Huaiwei (talk) 11:08, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
• Rank instead of "Position", as it is more economical with the column width, especially if the sort icon is also there. I also prefer Nation instead of "Nationality" or "Country". We frequently state that a "nation" at the Olympics is represented by a National Olympic Committee and not necessarily a "sovereign nation", and "nation" is more user-friendly than using the "NOC" acronym. -- Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 18:08, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
  • But the common meaning of the words "country" or "nation" refers to a "sovereign state" to many English speakers, regardless of what the linguists or academics say. We doubt we can ignore this and pretend that any of those words will not be seen as offensive or POVed.--Huaiwei (talk) 09:35, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
• Rank, Athlete, Nation. Nation is the appropriate term of art here. -- Jonel (Speak to me) 18:20, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

-- Tcncv (talk) 03:34, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Notes/remarks column standardization

There are several minor issues.

• Should an world record be "WR", "(WR)", "WR", or ""?
• Should Disqualification be "DQ" or "DSQ" (or maybe we don't care)?
• Should DQ/DSQ, DNS, and DNF be in the Rank or Result column. (If placed in the Rank column, a value can still be placed in the result column.)
• We also need to add legends throughout the results.

Comment Below

• I'd use "WR" as it makes a large achievement stand out from the result. Where possible use full text, i.e disqualification or did not finish. This can usually be done as it can be spread over both columns as if a result isn't achieved the rank is normally unranked and so doesn't need a value. Basement12 (T.C) 18:12, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
• Template:WR (and the image to which it links) should either be used throughout or proposed for deletion; I would prefer the latter as I don't see any advantages over text. Full text is a good idea (I think I'll adopt that right away for the shooting articles), and I would primarily use the notes column. Result values for disqualified athletes is another question, they officially "don't exist" but they can certainly be interesting, as discussed above. -- Jao (talk) 18:22, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

• I'd use "WR" as well. The blue one does not look too nice, besides, the WR should be bolded in order to be clearly seen out of the blue. Anyway, "WR" is far better. And whenever using those abbreviations, make sure there is a legend in the footnotes. --Tone 19:08, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
• Regarding legends, I thought it'd be useful to bring up the question of tooltips. I realize for tables like those for United States swimming, legends are far superior because of the high number of notes. In the Barbados article, I opted for tooltips, albeit perhaps overzealously. Being one lonely "NR", I assumed a tooltip would be sufficient there. Thoughts? Peloneous^tc 20:28, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

• Also - is it going to be necessary to put a legend under every sport on a nations page? When abbreviations such as Q (qualified for next round) are consistent for each of 20+ sports on a page it seems a bit daft to list this lots of times. Don't know where in the articles an overall legend could be incorporated tho. Basement12 (T.C) 20:53, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
• I think the answer to the above question is yes, since we can't assume the average reader already knows the difference between "Q", "q" and "DQ". The key shouldn't take more than a line or two. -- Tcncv (talk) 21:22, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

• Use the simple WR. Use a simple legend for abbreviations because tooltips are hard to add and sometimes confusing. Reywas92^Talk 22:13, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

• I prefer a plain text "WR" over the image. I would also support a bold "WR" and "OR", but only if used to contrast with other unbolded tags such as "PB"s, "SB"s, and various regional record tags. -- Tcncv (talk) 23:01, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

• Plain text--bolded or not--is the most simple and yet best option. As for the common legend box, I'm not so sure; it would have plenty of keys in it and most wouldn't appear on some event pages. An event-specific legend is more suited in my opinion. Parutakupiu (talk) 23:30, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

• Or is it possible to use OR, so that a legend is no longer required?--Huaiwei (talk) 11:13, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
  • Linking is a good idea, and more specific linkage is even better (such as that provided by Template:OlyR which I would use if it was only changed from image to plain text), but the link doesn't work in print so the legend is still needed. -- Jao (talk) 12:56, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
• I have updated {{WR}} and {{OlyR}} to use plain text instead of imagemaps, since that seems to be consensus here. -- Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 18:45, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Good point. Also, can the templates be used to display "EWR" or "EOR"? -- Jao (talk) 20:49, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

• PB/SB - a related issue is the placing of PB (personal best) and SB (season best) in the notes column or next to results in other places. As i've mentioned elsewhere i'd like to see the end of these in ALL olympic related articles as they are firstly not relevant to the olympics and secondly far too changeable and hard to verify with other sources. Athlete's pages are the only place they should be included. Basement12 (T.C) 00:41, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

• DQ/DSQ - Nobody has commented so far. I this a don't care issue? -- Tcncv (talk) 01:32, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

-- Tcncv (talk) 03:34, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

References

Many pages need supporting references. Would anyone like to propose a standard format for results citations? Should be provide redundant sources?

Comment Below

• If you are talking about providing a source for the results (e.g. official olympic site) it does seem a bit pointless to reproduce all the results in wikipedia just to link to a page with identical information. Basement12 (T.C) 18:14, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

• I still think references to verifiable sources are needed - "To ensure that the content of articles can be checked by any reader or editor." -- Tcncv (talk) 18:28, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
• For track records, everything above national level is available on the IAAF website ([1]). I don't know how many federations have similar info, but it'd always be a good place to start, even if an e-mail is necessary for the records. Peloneous^tc 21:11, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

-- Tcncv (talk) 03:34, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Key?

Just an idea. I think a key should be implemented to inform the reader what the table icons read, i.e. "DQ" = Disqualification; "OR" = Olympic Record. D.M.N. (talk) 16:17, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

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Use of bold type on medal table

From 2008 Medal Table talk:

Seems we have a minor edit war going over the use of boldface to highlight the winners of the most medals in each "category"; i.e. gold, silver, bronze, and total. I don't think it's necessary because it is possible to see which country is winning each "category" by simply sorting the tables. It just adds confusion, especially since it's not explained in the article what the significance of the bold face is. However, I still think it would be unnecessarily confusing even if an explanation was added. The other side of the argument is that this has been done for previous Olympic pages. Is the precedent relevant here if it's not making the table any easier to understand? Discuss. KiwiDave (talk) 06:42, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

I agree with you, Tcncv , in that I think the bolding should remain. Yes, the tables are sortable, but for people skimming through the article the bold type gives a quick summation of the leaders in each medal category without having to fiddle with the table. I'm not sure why years after this has become a standard practice that all of a sudden it gets taken up as a crusade. Geologik (talk) 01:58, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

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AFD Discussion

Would the project editors mind contributing to this AFD discussion: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2008 Summer Olympics medals per capita? I just want this to be resolved quickly like similarly themed AFDs over the past two years.

Thanks! --Madchester (talk) 01:25, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

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Medals/Medalists/Medal Winners

All of the Nations at the 2008 Summer Olympics articles use the heading "Medalists" for the section on medal winners (the only few that didn't i recently changed), but looking at similar articles for all previous games the heading "Medals" appears to be used almost exclusively. I'd imagine it makes sense for the 2008 pages to be changed to be consistent with previous games. What do others think of the choice of heading? Basement12 (T.C) 01:33, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

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"Gold-centric" issue - Questions and Answers page

Hello, everyone. The Beijing Olympics may be over but the issue of medal table/count/"rank" always appear once every 2 years (Winter/Summer Olympics). The most common issue of the medal table is the difference between the "Gold-centric"-ness of the rest-of-the-world media vs. the "Total-centric"-ness of the US media. This has brought confusion and questions of "fairness" or "logical or not" to whether a country is *better* than another. Thus, to (hopefully) prevent another epic battle 2 years from now during the Vancouver games, I propose that the members of Wikiproject:Olympics should make a Questions and Answers page dedicated to this issue (I am not, at this point, aware of any such clearly-dedicated Q&A page yet). Why stick to IOC standard and so forth. Why not use a 3-2-1 point value system for gold-silver-bronze despite it being the *most logical* to some. Thus, the next time somebody is having an issue, they can be re-directed to the proposed Q&A page and should answer all their questions. So it saves everybody's time, hopefully. Thanks. Heilme (talk) 16:13, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Good idea that, doesn't mean people still won't argue with aQ&A page as much as they do when we explain it to them though. Should the "gold-centric" system be used on all the nation articles or should e.g [Canada at the 2008 Summer Olympics]], which keeps being changed to reflect the position in a "Total-centric" table, with the reasoning that the COC uses this measurement (it is referenced) be allowed if it is the way that country records positions. After all no official ranking table is recognised by the IOC. Basement12 (T.C) 17:39, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

The Q&A page should reflect general Wikipedia guidelines on past, present, and future medals reporting. It would certainly be naive to think that in the future no one would argue with the "answers" in the Q&A page. Future editors new to the discussion should respect the previously-set guideline and unless there is a major flaw with it, they must abide by it. Ranting otherwise should simply be ignored. It may sound un-Wikipedian to ignore other people's suggestions, but if the "debate" leads eventually to the same result - that of using the previously-set (i.e. IOC) guideline - might as well be heavy-handed a bit and save everybody's time. Cheers, Heilme (talk) 18:43, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

It appears a page does already exist that at least sets out a convention for this issue - WP:OLYCON. It doesn't explain reasons for it though. Basement12 (T.C) 00:45, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

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Summer Olympic Games

Having just had a quick read through the article Summer Olympic Games it is in quite a mess. This article should be a flagship of the project but had its featured article status removed over two years ago and I fully understand why. I think we need to make it a priority to get this article back up to featured status. Basement12 (T.C) 04:09, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

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World-bias against American articles

I have serious concerns with how Olympic medal table has been changed recently. It makes it seem like the American media suddenly decided to change medal counts from by gold to total. The majority of United States media has ranked by total for most of modern Olympic history. [2]. An editor has even removed information from the United States at the 2008 Summer Olympics because they say it is biased towards Americans. The material removed could definitely be re-written in a more neutral tone, but I would say of course the US article will have a bias towards America; the article is about American athletes, history, and records. It is even written in American english. The lack of clarification for rank in the infobox is a problem, because there is no officially accepted ranking method. Either way is perfectly acceptable given that the IOC takes no position on the matter [3]. Given the current status, how can we possibly blame editors who change the rank on the page since by American standards, they are supposed to do so? --Jh12 (talk) 13:31, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

That's not it. The only reason I changed the bypass was so it could say "Rank by gold" instead of rank. Please understand, I greatly respect the standard, but there HAS to be a better way of explaining to the reader that this is a rank by gold, a way of ranking that is not used by the country the article is about. See User:Jh12/Draft5 for what I changed it to look like. --Jh12 (talk) 17:02, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

The infobox uses a standard style so you are trying to change consensus. It is fine to add clarification or explaination to the main body of text regarding the issue but the infobox already links to the 2008 Summer Olympics medal table where clarification should be given. Basement12 (T.C) 18:16, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

If you don't want to see a rank in the infobox for any page, just leave the parameter blank, as rank= or omit it altogether. As for removing the parameter from all infoboxes, I would not be opposed to that. It wasn't originally in the template when I first wrote it, but editors insisted on putting "Foobania finished 12th in the medal standings, with four gold medals" into the prose text of the article, and I thought that was over-emphasizing the rank too much. Deleting that text and putting the number into the infobox kept the same information, but more subtly. If you want to change the text string for all infoboxes from "Rank" to "Rank by gold", that's also fine. But regardless of how this discussion thread concludes, I am utterly convinced that creating a custom template fork for a single nation is a very stupid idea. -- Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 18:15, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

I guess the three choices are:

1. leave as it always has been
2. change the text string to read "Rank by gold"
3. get rid of the rank parameter altogether

I would prefer 1, 2, 3 in that order. -- Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 19:18, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

1,2. I don't think that it such a big deal especially because "Rank" links to 2008 Summer Olympics medal table. I wouldn't mind if "by gold" were added, but it causes clutter. I strongly oppose removing the section altogether. No offence, but Prince's analogy really doesn't work for me. Reywas92^Talk 19:34, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

• For the record the official site does have "medal standings". Whilst this site isn't actually the IOC site it is still an "official medal table". For the record it ranks by gold with a seperate heading a the end giving the rank by total. Basement12 (T.C) 20:08, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

country; the medal tables are displayed for information only]" Prince of Canada ^{t | c} 20:24, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

• The site I gave does use the word rank within the table. At the end of the day rank is the most suitable word to use. It is common for every media organisation and NOC to use one ranking system or another so Wikipedia should as well. As "gold-centric" is more common internationally it is the system that should mainly be used here, as long as we are clear to explain how we are ranking. Change the template to Rank by gold to compromise and lets get on with more useful and important things. Basement12 (T.C) 20:37, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Refocus

• There is no official standard or ranking according to the IOC. And really, one can look at the same numbers and come to different conclusions: that's statistics. But again, I think it is biased to force a specific standard on country that has an established history of not using it, and then failing to clearly indicate what that standard is. Clarifying rank by gold was the best compromise I could come up with. If that is too much to ask, how about changing rank so that it links to Olympic medal table? --Jh12 (talk) 23:41, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
• Since my name was mentioned in the beginning of this discusson, let me chime in. I think wikilinking to the Olympic medal table article that describes the two ranking systems is a satisfactory solution. It balances the dueling interests of using a method used by IOC generated tables with providing a quick link to an explanation for people who are used to total medals ordering system. I referred to anti-American bias in an edit summary because one editor was trying to push an incorrect assertion that ranking by overall medals was a recent invention of the U.S. media to save face over winning less gold medals than China. In reality, the U.S. media using tables supplied by the Associated Press has generally ranked by total medals in the past as well. The editor who spearheaded the effort to portray the total medal system as merely the result of "sour grapes" has derided the U.S. as "Amerikkka" in edit summaries. Edits should be guided by the facts rather than national animus, and the U.S. isn't an exception to that. --JamesAM (talk) 22:29, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

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Format for Category:Nations at the Summer Olympics

I think it is important to establish a set of "definitive guidelines" for this type of article to ensure consistency throughout. To that end I have started to do this at User:Basement12/Format for Nations at the Summer Olympics Articles. Once this is completed, with all standard formats decided upon by consensus within the project, it should be moved into the Wikipedia:WikiProject Olympics namespace and used for reference when editing these types of articles.

At the moment the standards i've included are ones that either are consensus at this page or are the closest to it. It is by no means complete and I invite all of you to help finishing/correcting it. Discussion on the desired format can either take place here or at the talk page. Hopefully we can a consistent style nailed down. Basement12 (T.C) 16:03, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

An editor is adding host country flags (flagicons) and Beijing sport pictograms to the "Country at the Olympics" pages. (see here) Is this standard? I deleted a few but saw s/he had done it to many. I didn't want to undue his work if that was decided upon. I prefer the simpler version, not to mention it's weird to have China's flag on, for example, Togo's Olympic page just because they won a medal there. (This is the previous version). Your thoughts? -Cbradshaw (talk) 18:22, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

• Question - Obviously seperate tables for men's and women's results are a good idea to but do they need sperate headers or just Men and Women above the tables? I'm worried that the tables of contents, e.g. at Romania at the 2008 Summer Olympics, are somewhat out of control. Basement12 (T.C) 18:31, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

• Team sport results - At United States at the 2008 Summer Olympics, we had small medal tables at the end of results to clearly indicate what medal was won by the team: see the bottom of the volleyball section at United_States_at_the_2008_Summer_Olympics#Men_8. A user felt that the US's final result could already be determined from the prior results and so the medal table was redundant. See the baseball results without a medal table at United_States_at_the_2008_Summer_Olympics#Results. Is there a preference for either way? I guess the way with medal tables made it similar to the individual sports where bronze, silver, and gold were clearly shown. But the medal tables do take up extra space on the big article. Thanks, --Jh12 (talk) 19:38, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

• I really don't like repeating the medal summary for team sports in each per-nation article. We don't do that for individual sports, and there are wikilinks galore to get to the per-sport articles. The little medal summary tables look out of place on the USA page. What is wrong with a simple line of prose text ("The United States won the silver medal in softball...") in the section intro? -- Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 21:11, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

• I like what you've done. One comment though - most of the box scores have width set to 100%. This adds a lot of white space - especially on a wide screen monitor. I'd suggest removing this and letting the browser set the width. -- Tcncv (talk) 22:08, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Headers A comment on Basement12's summary is that he uses ==Results by event==; ===Pictogram Sport===, with a main header for all event results with each sport having a 3rd-level header. This is in contrast to Romania at the 2008 Summer Olympics and most others (for 2008). I prefer as it is now, with each sport having its own 2nd-level header. Also, have we decided if Swimming, Diving, and Water polo should all be grouped together under Aquatics on these articles, such as on Germany at the 2008 Summer Olympics? I prefer them being separate, as on Russia at the 2008 Summer Olympics. Reywas92^Talk 19:51, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

New questions

• Team rosters - where do we stand them in the articles? Should there just be a list of squad members or, where available, something more elaborate like at Nigeria for example?
• Background colours - no one has so far complained about the guideline for ALL background colours (for non-existant rounds, dna, medallists etc) being removed. can i take this to mean there is no problem (as far as contributors here are concerned) if i begin to remove them from the 2008 articles?

Basement12 (T.C) 00:43, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

• Athletics sections - Should the athletics tables be split between running events and field events (United States versus Great Britain)? Should this be a unifying standard or done on a case-by-case basis? Peloneous^tc 05:48, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

• I think this may be a case of where a one size fits all model won't work. It seems reasonable to split by track/road events and field events if it looks better on a case by case basis. This may be particularly true where a nation has many cokmpetitors in field events, where there are only 2 rounds, in order to avoid a lot of N/As in the table. It would perhaps also allow something like at Lithuania, where the score for each attempted throw/jump could be recorded. Basement12 (T.C) 12:24, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

• Athletics title - Athletics vs Track and Field (Athletics). Great Britain uses the former and United States uses the latter. Personally, I prefer just Athletics, but I couldn't give you a reason why. AllynJ (talk | contribs) 06:16, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

• I think if some colors go they all go, if I were to suggest keeping any colour it would have been to highlight disqualifications (but not green). An example of some prospective colourless tables are shown above incase anyone didn't see them. I initially thouht they maybe too much of a blur of figures but it wasn't the case when I made them.

The sport is Athletics, but where applicable it would be fine to call it "Track and Field (Athletics)", the same with "Soccer (Football)" as long as it remains in the usual alphabetical position.

The rosters are too garish at the moment, but making new ones, with the stats we want, is a big task. If anyone is willing to take that on fine if not i reckon they could stay. Age is important for the football and the club column is interesting. The tables in 2006 FIFA World Cup squads don't give info on matches, goals etc, can they be adapted to do so? Basement12 (T.C) 12:35, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Medalists

Are we happy using this, or medallists where appropriate, for the heading? Rather than say medal winners or simply "Medals" as used in previous years? Basement12 (T.C) 12:41, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

• I've taken the lack of any objections in either of the two discussions to be a consensus (3 for, 1 no objection, 0 against) for the change to medalists and have begun implementing it. Basement12 (T.C) 23:41, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

Move

I think we're close to completing the guidelines so its probably time to start thinking about moving them to the project pages. Any suggestions for the exact title it should be moved to? Once moved and complete I think the page should probably be protected in some way as well. Thoughts/suggestions on this or other things that need to be included? Basement12 (T.C) 16:48, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

photo src: www.thebalance.com

List of athletes by country

Does one of these exist anywhere, as an RS? I've been doing Uzbekistan at the 2008 Summer Olympics but I can't figure out the proper athlete count. The official Olympic site linked not only has the count of athletes wrong (it says 58 when it only lists 55) but also lists a swimmer who didn't take part and doesn't list a judoka who did take part (I went through just about every event page and double-checked, so I don't have a source for this). The official Beijing site has a list of just about every athlete of record, but includes those that didn't make it to the Olympics, which doesn't help. The Beijing site's page for the NOC in question doesn't help either. Anyone got any clues? AllynJ (talk | contribs) 06:47, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Category:Swimming events at the 2008 Summer Olympics

Could someone with some auto-editing program (eh?) or otherwise manually, move all the contents of Category:Swimming at the 2008 Summer Olympics to Category:Swimming events at the 2008 Summer Olympics to match the naming convention of other subcategories of Category:2008 Summer Olympics events. Yboy83 (talk) 22:54, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

It's done. Don't know what needs to happen to the old, empty category though. Basement12 (T.C) 23:20, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Team sports statistics on per-nation pages

Continuing the discussion thread above--it really is quite easy to create tables like these, so I'm perfectly willing to do that work myself if we have consensus here. Once I have my Excel file constructed for each sport, it's a simple cut&paste job. The only challenge for me is figuring out what columns each sport's tables should have. The cumulative statistics pages on the official website have much more than is required, in my opinion, so we should just extract a subset. On the basketball sample I have shown, I used the Wikipedia NBA season pages as my guideline for what the WP:WikiProject Basketball editors found most important. I would need to have similar guidelines for each sport, but once I've got that, I'm good to go. Here is my best guess per sport, with the proposed table headers and legends. I;ve put them into separate subsections on this talk page to make it easier to comment on each one, if necessary. Any comments on this plan before I proceed? -- Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 00:16, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Basketball

Pos - Position; GP - Games Played; MPG - Minutes Per Game; FG% - Field Goal Percentage; 3FG% - Three-point Field Goal Percentage; FT% - Free Throw Percentage; RPG - Rebounds Per Game; APG - Assists Per Game; SPG - Steals Per Game; BPG - Blocks Per Game; PPG - Points Per Game

Baseball and Softball

Pos - Position; GP - Games Played; AB - At Bat; R - Runs; H - Hits; HR - Home Runs; RBI - Runs Batted In; TB - Total Bases; BB - Base On Balls; SO - Strikeouts; SB - Stolen Bases; OBP - On-Base Percentage; SLG - Slugging Percentage; BA - Batting Average

GP - Games Played; GS - Games Started; W - Wins; L - Losses; SV - Saves; IP - Innings Pitched; H - Hits; R - Runs; HR - Home Runs; SO - Strikeouts; BB - Base On Balls; ERA - Earned Run Average

Football

Pos - Position; GP - Games Played; Min - Minutes Played; G - Goals; S - Shots; Yellow Cards; Second Yellow = Red Card; Red Cards

Handball

GP - Games Played; MPG - Minutes Per Game; G - Goals; S - Shots; A - Assists; ST - Steals; B - Blocked Shots; Pen - 2 Minute Penalties; Yellow Cards; Red Cards

Field hockey

GP - Games Played; G - Goals; S - Shots; FG - Field Goals; PC - Penalty Corners; PS - Penalty Strokes; Green Cards; Yellow Cards; Red Cards

Volleyball

Pts - Total scoring points; Spk% - Spikers efficiency percentage; Blk - Blockers average by set; Srv - Servers average by set; Dig - Diggers averages by set; Set - Setters averages by set; Rec% - Receivers success percentage

Water polo

GP - Games Played; Min - Minutes Played; G - Goals; S - Shots; A - Assists; ST - Steals; B - Blocked Shots; PF - Personal Fouls

Yet another set of medal templates

As a result of some prior discussions (#Final_results_style), I have created some new medal templates that I hope the community will find useful. The templates {{Gold1}}, {{Silver2}}, and {{Bronze3}} display , , and . They are designed to support sorting in results tables (internally using the {{sort}} template), and also provide alt text values for text-only browsers. See Athletics at the 2008 Summer Olympics - Men's marathon#Results for sample usage.

I would like to use them as I reformat existing tables to match the consensus style, but would like to get some feedback first. Thank you. -- Tcncv (talk) 00:31, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Seems fine, but it would be better to just rewrite {{Gold medal}}, {{Silver medal}}, and {{Bronze medal}} to have a parameter to leave off the word "Gold" and be sortable by itself. That would be simpler than another set of templates. This kind is better than the funny little trophy symbols. Reywas92^Talk 00:50, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

It is also worth mentioning that as the result of a releted discussion {here), someone created new {{WR}} and {{OlyR}} templates that provide links to the approprate records pages. Examples:

-- Tcncv (talk) 01:26, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

I've used the new medal templates in a couple of swimming articles. Hope thats ok. Basement12 (T.C) 04:25, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Closing ceremony flagbearers

Just found a ref for these, and am contemplating how it would be best to go about introducing them: should they be added in to the current article, where using rowspan & colspan would break the sortable aspect of the table, or rename the current article and create a new one for the closing ceremony. Anyone got any opinions on how best to go about this? AllynJ (talk | contribs) 05:12, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Template for format guidelines

Would it be a good idea to develop a template, probably for use on the talk pages, linking to the format guidelines page? If we wanted to do this can i'd suggest doing it before the paralympics start, then the category:Nations at the 2008 Summer Paralympics articles could have it added, hopefully reducing the amount of clean up needed on those articles after the games. I'm pretty clueless when it comes to making templates so if someone else could have a go it could prove useful. Basement12 (T.C) 16:47, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Official site for Beijing 2008

The offical website now redirects to the summer paralympics site, a site that for some reason instantly makes my browser crash. If anybody else has this problem or just wishes to see the old summer games site its now at http://en.beijing2008.cn/en_index.shtml[8]. Basement12 (T.C) 19:55, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Tie in the Men's 10000m?

The Athletics at the 2008 Summer Olympics - Men's 10000 metres article and other sources (here and here) show identical third and fourth place times, yet only one bronze medal appears to have been awarded. Does anyone here know why? -- Tcncv (talk) 05:01, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

Peer Review Request of Olympic Games

I'm not sure if this is the right place to request this but here goes. I've been working on the Olympic Games article in an attempt to restore it to FA status. I think it's important to the Olympics Project that this article be Featured. It was demoted in early 2007 for these [[9]] reasons. I have tried to address the reasons as best as I can. I'm still working on the citations. Please shred the article and I will go back in and make the corrections. Thank you for your time and help. H1nkles (talk) 21:37, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

• "The IOC has become the heart of the "Olympic Movement,"" - unless a source actually calls it the heart the wording here probably needs changing
• "Games attempts to add more events in order to" - i think it now aims to keep number roughly consistent with any new events replace old ones. Don't have a source for this to hand though
• "less than 250, which is minuscule by modern standards,..." - this is a very point of view statement

I'll give you some more feedback when i get a sec. Basement12 (T.C) 22:02, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for the time and suggestions! H1nkles (talk) 14:40, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Images

I've come across a good source for images of athletes, medals etc. User:Jmex60 has uploaded a lot of useful pictures (s)he took during the games to the commons (some are already being used). See his/her gallery here. If anyone else has found good sources it might be useful to post them here as well. Cheers Basement12 (T.C) 22:32, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

1968 Olympics Black Power salute

I just tagged this article for your project, 1968 Olympics Black Power salute. Was hoping to get a few more sets of eyes on it, as well as a few more voices on the talk page as needed. Anyone who can watchlist it, please do. Thanks.--IvoShandor (talk) 20:40, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Another Olympic link of interest

I know that some users have been using http://www.databaseolympics.com for referencing, but one of its limitations has been its limitation on just Olympic medalists only instead of all Olympic competitors. I have found another site that puts the results and listing of all Olympics athletes from the 1896 Summer Olympics to the 2006 Winter Olympics - http://www.sports-reference.com/olympics/ . From waht I have seen of this site, it is a gold mine of information that I think we need to put in as references. Chris (talk) 22:16, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Are horses awarded medals?

I've found some horse articles, such as Hickstead, that basically say that the horse was awarded an Olympic medal, which of course begs the question, are Horses officially awarded Olympic medals? If they are, do horses belong in the "Olympic competitors for [insert nation]" or "Olympic [insert medal] medalists for [insert nation]" categories? -- Scorpion⁰⁴²² 16:21, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

GA Nominee

I'm not sure were to put this, so I'll post it here. Swimming at the 2008 Summer Olympics - Men's 100 metre butterfly has been nominated for GA status. ANy help would be appreciated. Thanks ! --Mr.crabby (Talk) 18:51, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

Categories for discussion

Yesterday, I proposed here a renaming of the Category: Summer Olympic events and Category:Winter Olympic events to Category: Summer Olympics events and Category:Winter Olympics events, as I think that, like with 2012 Summer Olympics bids, the name should state that these are "events of the Summer/Winter Olympics" and not "Olympic events of Summer/Winter", as it seems to me now. Am I wrong? Should I have provided a better renaming, such as "Events at the Winter/Summer Olympics", maybe? Parutakupiu (talk) 21:45, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

Football at the Summer Olympics - squads

Latouffedisco (talk · contribs) has just finished to add ALL the football squads. You can browse his HUGE work here: {{Football at the Summer Olympics - Men's team squads}}. I think he deserves all our congratulations and maybe something more. Congratulations Erwan! What's your next project? :-) --necronudist (talk) 19:05, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Query

Xinhua states that Pal Szekeres is the only person ever to have won medals both at the Olympics and at the Paralympics. Xinhua has been known to make rather big mistakes in Olympic-related articles, so, before I add that to Szekeres' article, I thought I should ask here whether anyone knows of other athletes who have achieved that distinction. Aridd (talk) 20:09, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

List of Nations Finishing at the Top of the Medals Tables at Summer Olympic Games

What are anybody's opinions on this article, which was created today. As a first thought it seems to be named against guidelines (too many capitalised words?). It was, briefly, merged with Olympic medal table but I undid that straight away as I thought it would cause too much controversy in an article that needs to be kept very neutral. It is properly referenced but does it need to exist at all? Similar tables have, I think, been removed from Summer Olympic Games in the past and there are very few places that could actually link to it. Basement12 (T.C) 12:09, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

There is also a similar article for the winter games. Basement12 (T.C) 13:42, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

I agree with the capitalisation issue with the title, I tried to rectify this by moving the article but was told I was not permitted to do so. I also agree with it being odd that the top 4 nations are shown, the table was copied from the last version of the Summer Olympic Games article that it existed in, where it included the top 4. I agree that top 3 would seem a more 'normal' number to show, and was going to raise this very question on the discussion page for the article. If it is felt that it is arbitrary to include anything other than all nations finishing with medals, then I'm happy to expand the article, so that it is basically a list of all Olympic medals tables, however, I feel that the benefits of the summarisation that it currently offers would then be lost. Perhaps the article could have a summary showing the top 3, and then a link to the full table. I'm open to any suggestions on how these articles could be improved, and what could be done to make them fit wikipedia guidelines, and so not be deleted. Lukens (talk) 14:26, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of nations finishing at the top of the medals tables at the Summer Olympic Games?. -- Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 16:12, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

Infoboxes for events

This may or may not have been addressed before. I propose creating a uniform infobox for separate Olympic events where key details would be written, such as medal winners, venue, date and similar. I got this idea when seeing something similar at the Cycling at the 2008 Summer Olympics - Men's road race article. I think such a box would make all the articles more uniform and clearer to the reader since several different styles are used for different sports. Opinions? --Tone 10:21, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Let's try here then, so more people can share ideas. I was thinking about something that would apply to all Olympic sports since there are different styles for different sports and the only thing that is in common, is the box with medals (and even here there are proposals to change the format). Since I am not very good at template design, could you make some generic form with the info mentioned above in this paragpaph, so that we have something to begin with? Thanks. --Tone 18:18, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Please take a look at {{Infobox Olympic event}} and let me know what you think. There is still a problem when it is used on the same page as our right-floating navigation boxes, and I will look into that. -- Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 19:41, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Ok, I fixed that problem, so check out Swimming at the 2008 Summer Olympics - Men's 400 metre individual medley. We will have to update all the per-Games sport navboxes (like {{SwimmingAt2008SummerOlympics}}) to use them and the event infobox on the same pages. -- Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 19:50, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Lapsus, the logo should be PD-old but let's wait what they say at Commons. I didn't really mean to list all the roosters for team sports, I just wandered what happens in cases where there are more teams from the same country (rowing maybe). So eventually up to 8 people should be put in for each medal since the country would be insufficient. But this is a rare case, I think. The problem I see with the results is that some competitions don't have time/distance/points results, like how would you write results for judo with it complex system? But on the other hand, for sports like swimming, this is possible and can also mention World records at the same time (many of those recently :-)) --Tone 20:43, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

I've made some tweaks, the most notable is to add the Games to the event header. I also think that these can be used on the per-sport summary pages, so check out Athletics at the 2008 Summer Olympics. -- Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 18:31, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

I like {{Infobox Olympic event}}, but a suggestion would be to use {{flagIOCmedalist}} for the names of the medalists. I could easily incorporate that into the infobox if you want. Reywas92^Talk 20:43, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

I have now implemented the infobox in some articles, such as Athletics at the 2008 Summer Olympics - Men's 110 metre hurdles, Athletics at the 2008 Summer Olympics - Men's 100 metres, Athletics at the 2008 Summer Olympics - Men's 400 metres..., for those we already have pictures. I think this looks pretty good. However, suddenly the section medalists becomes redundant. So shall we remove it? --Tone 17:48, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

• I like the look of the different flag display at Cycling at the 2008 Summer Olympics - Men's team pursuit, looks better than it did before. The <br> between flag/nation and athletes is necessary (even in individual sports) I think. Basement12 (T.C) 18:24, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

Arbitrary section break

Hi, first I want to thank you for taking my idea of showing the whole nation name instead of the IOC-abbreviation into consideration! As for my next concern will be on how to change the other team sports, like Football, Handball, Volleyball, and Basketball! I know that the Template:Infobox International Football Competition has a widely known layout, and contains alot more tournament statistics than other Olympic sports! Maybe you could borrow some codes from that template and insert it as optional content on the Olympic one?

• Teams (from xxx confederations) (Can maybe modify the Comptitors option)
• Venue(s) (in xxx host cities) (Can maybe modify the current Venue option)
• Matches played
• Goals scored (xxx per match)
• Attendance (xxx per match) (Can be used in many other sports aswell, maybe?)
• Top scorer(s)
• Best player (if this gets awarded)

And how to solve the gender question? Show both men & women in the same infobox (as now) or make separate infoboxes? ...why even keep a main page, all it does is to copy the other pages... Thougths anyone? lil2mas (talk) 21:02, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

The one thing that sticks out to me is "Games of the XXIX Olympiad." Though official, that name is not at all common in usage. It is FAR more common to say "The 2008 Summer Olympics," evidenced by no less than WP naming conventions. I certainly like the box for the cycling article. Don't fall asleep ^zzzzzz 07:39, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Great progress with the additional parameters! Games of the XXIX Olympiad is probably fine since there is a link to the specific games in the intro of each article, also, the year is in the title, pretty obvious. The top scorer will probably be relevant only in football or maybe in hockey, attendance... if this can be provided?, ... I see no harm in additional parameters that make the box include similar data as the existing ones but we should try and implement them to all events to see if we are missing anything. Also, in the present state, we can put complete rosters of the teams with medals in. Regarding the records, if one is set in other race than in finals, it can be put as Winning time: 1:00:00 (0:59:00 WR set in semifinal). What do you think? Are we putting too much data in the boxes? --Tone 21:03, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

I like what I see with the new event info boxes. However, rather than having each page specify a complete prev and next link, would it be better to automatically generate them? This assumes that the previous and next pages follow recognizable naming conventions. I'd suggest adding a category parameter. Together with the games and event parameter, standard default previous and next links could be generated. The prev and next parameters could still be supported as overrides or a special value such as "none" to indicate that the links should be suppressed altogether. Prev links for 1892 would be suppressed automatically by default. -- Tcncv (talk) 01:56, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

• In case anyone has trouble with multiple info boxes stacking horizontally instead of vertically, the problem might be solved by an edit to second info box similar to this change that I made to to {{GymnasticsAt2008SummerOlympics}}. -- Tcncv (talk) 05:58, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

Guideline for "Sport at the year Summer Olympics"

Hello all. With the guidelines manual for the "Nation at the year Summer Olympics" article series pretty much finished, I've began buidling up a similar manual for the "Sport at the year Summer Olympics" series, some days ago. I've done it all in a userpage of mine (linked from the title), before it is moved to the project namespace, and as you can see, there are still things to finish, and even things to start. I invite you to edit away, where you think it could be improved or where some item is missing. Much of what I wrote will also probably be further discussed, as it might not have been the result of a consensus. For that purpose, we can use the talkpage for future discussions. Cheers! Parutakupiu (talk) 23:23, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

What about results in the medalist table (using 2 columns)? The examples given are from the 2008 athletics article, which has them, but that's pretty uncommon. For 2008, we have results in the main athletics and swimming articles but not in the ones for canoeing, cycling, diving, equestrian, gymnastics, modern pentathlon, rowing, sailing, shooting, synchronized swimming, triathlon or weightlifting. I've previously been under the impression that consensus was to keep results out of these tables, but consensus may have changed. If so, we should at the very least add results to those of the sports which keep Olympic records (track cycling, shooting and weightlifting; archery also keeps ORs but is an elimination tournament so that spells trouble). -- Jao (talk) 15:04, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

What about the order of the team members? Do we show them alphabetically in every case? E.g. relay teams? Do we also show them in alphabetically order or in the order them ran/swum? Also in this case I would prefer alphabetically order, but on the result page we can show them in the order they competed? Doma-w (talk) 15:40, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Are you saying to remove the Medal Summary section from e.g. Swimming at the 2008 Summer Olympics? Please don't. Yes, it's large and already in the individual event articles, but they're individual. I don't want to go to every single event article when I could just see a summary on the main article. If it does take up too much space, which I disagree with, there must be a section link to list of 2008 Summer Olympics medal winners#Swimming so I don't have to page through 15 event articles. And even then, I do want to see the time next to the name, which that list doesn't have. Reywas92^Talk 22:47, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

?

I still have my problems with the Category:Olympic competitors from Ireland who represented other countries. E.g. John Daly: In 1904 he competed for the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland. So why he represented an other country?? He represented his home country, or not? Doma-w (talk) 14:17, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Sports diplomacy

The ever-present effects on sports and politics didn't have an article. I've just created Sports diplomacy which others may find a good read and to add more to. Lihaas (talk) 18:15, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Wushu?

A section on a wushu tournament has been aded to Great Britain at the 2008 Summer Olympics and also mentioned on 2012 Summer Olympics. Not sure if its real/official in anyway but, if it is, then other than the fact it needed special permission to take place does this have anything whatsoever to do with the 2008 Summer Olympics? Its not part of the actual games (not even a demonstration sport) in any case so I don't think it belongs. Does anyone know anything about it and has it appeared on other 2008 pages? Basement12 (talk) 16:54, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Certain individuals have stated that because this is neither an official or demonstration event that it "has nothing to do with the Olympics". Given that the tournament is being organised by the BOCOG and is being held in an Olympic Arena, it clearly has something to do with the Olympics and I think it at least deserves to be mentioned; what was added to the Team GB page gave a clear explanation that no medals would be added to the official tally. Hammersfan 21/08/08, 10.51 BST

But the title of the article is "Great Britain at the 2008 Summer Olympics", not "Team GB at the 2008 Summer Olympics". Hammersfan 21/08/08, 11.34 BST

Not an olympic sport so shouldn't be included IMO. Dpmuk (talk) 22:30, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

I believe that the following would not be WP:undue weight:

1. A short paragraph in the main 2008 Summer Olympics article about how BOCOG tried to make it an official demonstration sport, but were declined by the IOC, and this is the compromise. A link to the article, but no details about results (number of nations, events, competitors, etc.)
2. No mention from any of the Category:Nations at the 2008 Summer Olympics articles. It is out of the scope of those articles.

-- Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 16:25, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

One further clarification -- the Wushu athletes did stay in the Olympic Village during part of the Olympic Games. I can tell you that this was somewhat upsetting to the NOCs, although I have not found any official statements condemning BOCOG for the rule-breaking.Petermgiles (talk) 02:02, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

AFDed - ARTICLE DELETION REQUEST - 2028 Summer Olympics

May I suggest this page for deletion as it is a bit pathetic having a wikipedia article for an event that is 20 years in the future . I have known articles only a few months away that have been deleted but this takes the piss really, I mean no news on the games will be known until 2021 at the least. I suggest it be deleted and protected to at least 2019, what does anyone else think. (BlackpoolKickboxer2008 (talk) 00:13, 13 September 2008 (UTC))

Format for Nations at the Summer Olympics Articles - moving to project space

I did add this above but thought moving to the bottom of the page would get it more attention....

I think we're close to completing the guidelines so its probably time to start thinking about moving them to the project pages. Any suggestions for the exact title it should be moved to? Once moved and complete I think the page should probably be protected in some way as well. Thoughts/suggestions on this or other things that need to be included? Basement12 (T.C) 16:48, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

• I have now copied (it wouldn't allow me to move the page) the guidelines into [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Olympics/Manual of Style (Games summary - Nations) and archived the original page at User:Basement12/Format for Nations at the Summer Olympics Articles, as there are lots of stray links to it (particularly in edit summaries). The a link to the page still need sto be added to Template:OlympicsWikiProject, I can have a go at this but i'd feel happier if someone a bit more experianced at playing with templates could do it. It seems almost all the pages on {{WPOLYMPICS}} are out of date and as this template isn't in use on any current pages (as far as i know) adapting it seems pointless. Basement12 (T.C) 17:56, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Moves

Hi! I think we need an admin to move back all the 2008 Judo articles? They all have an incorrect dash? Kind regards Doma-w (talk) 23:34, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia 0.7 articles have been selected for Olympics

Wikipedia 0.7 is a collection of English Wikipedia articles due to be released on DVD, and available for free download, later this year. The Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team has made an automated selection of articles for Version 0.7.

We would like to ask you to review the articles selected from this project. These were chosen from the articles with this project's talk page tag, based on the rated importance and quality. If there are any specific articles that should be removed, please let us know at Wikipedia talk:Version 0.7. You can also nominate additional articles for release, following the procedure at Wikipedia:Release Version Nominations.

A list of selected articles with cleanup tags, sorted by project, is available. The list is automatically updated each hour when it is loaded. Please try to fix any urgent problems in the selected articles. A team of copyeditors has agreed to help with copyediting requests, although you should try to fix simple issues on your own if possible.

We would also appreciate your help in identifying the version of each article that you think we should use, to help avoid vandalism or POV issues. These versions can be recorded at this project's subpage of User:SelectionBot/0.7. We are planning to release the selection for the holiday season, so we ask you to select the revisions before October 20. At that time, we will use an automatic process to identify which version of each article to release, if no version has been manually selected. Thanks! For the Wikipedia 1.0 Editorial team, SelectionBot 23:19, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Bid images

I'd like to get a third opinion as to whether it desirable to include bid images in the bid section of the main Olympic pages, such as those shown in the 2004 Summer Olympics article. I think it adds page bloat and is unnecessary since the images are already contained in the 2004 Summer Olympics bids article. I removed them once, but they were added back in. Opinions? Thanks. -- Tcncv (talk) 23:39, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Hi. I just got your message. The reason I'm doing this is because I notice that on some pages (i.e, 2008 Summer Olympic bids) there have been pictures that have been deleted. I hope you understand. 24.1.4.241 (talk) 00:02, 16 September 2008 (UTC) (Moved from User talk:Tcncv#Bid_Image_Response)

I've removed the images. -- Tcncv (talk) 04:24, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Good article nominee

I have nominated Great Britain at the 2008 Summer Olympics as a good article. I believe it is one of the first "Nation" at "Year" style articles to give complete results and follow our new guidelines so it would be nice to see it recognised. It will probably take a while to get reviewed, give the backlog there, but i'll keep you updated on the progress made. It is also my and Yboy83's hope to get Great Britain at the 2008 Summer Paralympics to a similar standard. So if anyone can help out it'd be appreciated, cheers Basement12 (T.C) 23:19, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Paralympic Games

Do articles relating to the Paralympic Games fall within the scope of this WikiProject? I'm not sure if I should add {{OlympicsWikiProject}} to articles about the Paralympics that I've created. -- Cheers, JackLee ^-talk- 08:11, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

I've written two articles about Paralympic athletes, "Theresa Goh" and "Laurentia Tan". I was wondering if the {{OlympicsWikiProject}} banner should be applied to them, as it is applied to Olympic athletes. -- Cheers, JackLee ^-talk- 02:42, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

There are similar tables for swimming in these types of article as well. This is just my opinion but i'd think something similar would be suggested in a GA review. Basement12 (T.C) 03:23, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Unified or united

Hello. There is a discrepancy in the naming I would like to solve. The article about German team 1956-1964 stands at Unified Team of Germany, hence categories use "United", e.g. Category:Olympic competitors for the United Team of Germany. We should use only one form. Which form is then correct? - Darwinek (talk) 11:26, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Archival

I'm not a member of this project, but you guys really need to archive this page. It's like 456 kb. You can do it manually, or I believe that MiszaBotIII can archive it automatically. Thanks, Genius101 _{T. C.} 13:48, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Hoorah, 71 kb. Much better. -- Jonel (Speak to me) 12:33, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Peer Review of Olympic Games Article

I've listed the Olympic Games article at WP:Peer Review. If there is anyone who could kindly take a look at the article and provide a critique it will only help make it better. Thanks! H1nkles (talk) 15:59, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Help needed with identifying Australian Olympians

Gallery at commons Thanks, YellowMonkey (bananabucket) 01:48, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Infobox questions

I raised a question at Template talk:Infobox Olympic event, but probably it's not on everybody's watchlist, so I'm trying here instead: When using the nations parameter, should we treat every IOC code as one nation, even those that don't represent an NOC (EUN and IOP in 1992, IOA in 2000)? Also, would it be a good idea to abbreviate the very long country names? The infoboxes at Shooting at the 1992 Summer Olympics - Women's 10 metre air pistol and Shooting at the 2004 Summer Olympics - Men's double trap, for instance, are line-broken in all my browsers, and positively absurdly so in one (Opera 9, and it doesn't seem to depend on window width or anything). -- Jao (talk) 12:07, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

To reply to the original questions, my intent was that the nations parameter referred to distinct NOCs, including "special" ones like IOP. As for the long names, that's one reason why I just used the codes instead of country names in the original version of the infobox, before there were comments here about using the full names. My solution for really long names is visible on Weightlifting at the 2008 Summer Olympics - Women's 53 kg. The goldNOC etc. parameters are left blank, and the country name is formatted using {{flagIOC}} as part of the gold etc. parameters, with line breaks after the competitor names. Is that an acceptable solution? An alternative might be to have a special parameter for the infobox (longnames=true perhaps?) and this type of formatting could be done automatically. I hope to get back to this infobox very soon, for extensions for the team sports as discussed before, but I've been ultra-busy in the real world lately. -- Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 23:07, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

More GA nominees

I've currently nominated Great Britain at the 2008 Summer Paralympics and Palau at the 2008 Summer Olympics for good article reviews. If anyone has time to have a look over them and make any necessary changes or additions that I haven't thought of i'd appreciated it. Cheers Basement12 (T.C) 00:36, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

AfD 2008 Summer Paralympics medal table (with respect to population)

I have AfDed the above article, its nothing but original research and is additionally completely unsourced. The precedent has been set for deleting such pages by numerous similar Olympic articles but any further comment from project mebers would be welcome, the debate can be found here. Thanks Basement12 (T.C) 11:28, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Header

Shouldn't you guys change the header? Remove Beijing? 'Cause it's over? Thanks, Genius101 ^Guestbook 21:52, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Flags

The flag used for Canada at the 1912 Summer Olympics is not the flag Canada used at the opening ceremony in 1912. Please see the image added to the article. Also you can see in the background the team of Australasia and they have also not used the flag shown in the article Australasia at the 1912 Summer Olympics? Anybody knows more? Kind regards Doma-w (talk) 23:32, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Photo straw poll on Olympics

User_talk:YellowMonkey#Straw_poll_for_selecting_photos_of_Australia_at_the_2008_Summer_Olympics

I went to an Olympics welcome home parade in Australia and took a lot of photos. I took multiple photos of the same people and so I created a poll so that anyone can vote on which photo they think is the best. YellowMonkey (click here to choose Australia's next top model) 03:46, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

AfD notification: 2006 Winter Olympics highlights

AfD discussion on 2006 Winter Olympics highlights is underway, see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2006 Winter Olympics highlights (2nd nomination). -- Jao (talk) 13:17, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

TfD Notice on {{Deaflympic Games}}

Template:Deaflympic Games has been nominated for deletion (because the linked to articles disappeared - no longer are articles) 70.51.10.188 (talk) 07:31, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

references in the 1896 olympics

in some articles of the sports at the 1896 olympics there are some references of a digital document who can be read in the site

http://www.aafla.org/6oic/OfficialReports/1896/1896.pdf

Although the site who host that document was created for the 1984 olympics, the document itself has some errors since by reading the info from the IOC site one can see that the 1896 olympics took place between

Opening date: 06 April 1896

Closing date: 15 April 1896

and in that document stated as reference (which has many good information, no doubt about it) the first day of that olympics was on 25th march 1896, something surely are not right. Can that reference continue on the site although has wrong info? --Preceding unsigned comment added by Bproof (talk o contribs) 19:31, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

many thanks for that useful info, Jonel ;)Bproof (talk) 22:19, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Peer review for Yip Pin Xiu

I wrote an article about Singaporean Paralympic swimmer Yip Pin Xiu. The article is currently on peer review in preparation for a GA nomination. Members of this WikiProject are invited to review the article. Any and all feedback is welcome. --J.L.W.S. The Special One (talk) 11:20, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Big bunch of pictures

Some of you may already be aware of this but a huge set of photographs have been added to Commons after an agreement with the German federal archive. In particular, there are dozens of pictures of German olympians now available. Pichpich (talk) 15:39, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Women's Olympic Games

Is there an article for the Women's Olympic Games/Les Jeux Olympiques Feminines ? (The competing setup from before the Olympics allowed women to compete, and up until it's final event in 1937) 76.66.195.159 (talk) 10:07, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

Proposal to switch the "changes in standings" sections in the medal count articles to tables

Talk:2008 Summer Olympics medal table#Proposal to switch the "changes in medal standings" section to a table format

If people agree (and once the kinks are worked out), I'm going to add this to the other medal table articles. As this is a change that will affect several FLs, I figured I should give the project a heads up. Please try to keep the discussion in one place (preferably the 2008 medal table page). -- Scorpion⁰⁴²² 01:26, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

Norway at the Olympics medal counts

Is there anyone out there who can readily check the medal counts in Norway at the Olympics? The total medals for summer games do not match the total medals for summer events. (Same for winter.) The additions for Beijing appear to correct, but the numbers were wrong since at least the October 2007 revision. Thanks. -- Tcncv (talk) 06:51, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

2000 vacant athletic gold medals

Does anyone know if a decision was ever made on the redistribution of medals listed as vacant in Athletics at the 2000 Summer Olympics? That page and the 2000 Summer Olympics medal table page show Sri Lanka as having received a bronze medal. But the Sri Lanka at the 2000 Summer Olympics and the Sri Lanka at the Olympics pages indicate silver. Also, the Nigeria at the 2000 Summer Olympics page shows gold for the men's 4x400m, but Athletics at the 2000 Summer Olympics - Men's 4 x 400 metre relay shows silver. Thanks. -- Tcncv (talk) 04:18, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Federal Republic of Yugoslavia

FYI - I added Federal Republic of Yugoslavia 1996-2002 data to the Yugoslavia at the Olympics page. The corresponding Yugoslavia at the xxxx yyyy Olympics pages already linked back to this page via the "summary" link, and the All-time Olympic Games medal table includes these games in the Yugoslavia medal totals. All of these pages are associated with the YUG NOC code. If anyone knows of a reason not to do this, please let me know. -- Tcncv (talk) 06:01, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Per discussion, I have updated the Yugoslavia at the 1996-Summer/1998-Winter/2000-Summer/2002-Winter Olympics articles so that the infobox "summary" links will bring up the Serbia and Montenegro at the Olympics article. I also updated templates: {{subst:Infobox Olympics Yugoslavia}} and {{subst:Infobox Country Olympics}} to implement a new "altsummarypage" parameter in support of these changes. -- Tcncv (talk) 02:16, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Olympic Games Article Critique Request

Hello, after a brief hiatus I have resumed my editing of the Olympic Games article. I have tried to incorporate many of the suggestions put forth by the community. Thank yous go to User:Basement12, User:Jonel and User:Andrwsc for their help to get it to where it currently stands. At this point I am seeking a final review of the article before posting it for FA consideration. I'm still relatively new to this and I would sincerely appreciate a seasoned editor's review. The community has listed this A class article as a top priority and I very much would like to get this back to Featured Article status. Your help would be fantastic. Thanks! H1nkles (talk) 21:28, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

• Overall it is very good. It is well-referenced, though for an article of this length there could definitely be more.
• Rostrum needs to be disambiguated or replaced.

• I have already made some edits correcting phrasing, punctuation, and other details. A dash is not the same as a hyphen so &ndash does not need to be used for a hyphen, and &nbsp is not needed in every instance of a number (WP:MOS).
• The information about hockey and figure skating previously being in the summer olympics is repeated in the Sports section.

• I also suggest that you clear out some of the excess external links.

• Some more individual statements could use references, although it is overall very well referenced, and you have done a very good job using summary style. You may want to take the article to WP:PR as well. Thanks for your great work and good luck at FAC! Reywas92^Talk 23:16, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

Please participate in Yip Pin Xiu's peer review

Greetings, members of this WikiProject! I know you guys are interested in improving articles about the Olympics. But what about the Paralympics? Yip Pin Xiu won Singapore's first Paralympic gold medal (and a silver) and set two world records at the 2008 Summer Paralympics. Yet her Wikipedia biography was speedy deleted by Xaosflux. Systemic bias? Discrimination against the disabled? What a shame! Can you stomach that? I could not. So I wrote a high-quality article about her. I believe it nearly meets GA standards and have filed a PR to help get it there. If you care about Wikipedia, about the Paralympics and about fighting discrimination (against the disabled), please give the article a thorough review! --J.L.W.S. The Special One (talk) 02:32, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

List of Olympic medalists in alpine skiing

This is an article that I just randomly started working on, and I'm pretty happy with how it's turned out. I would like a better lead image, but I couldn't find anything that was appropriate. I'm hoping to take it to FLC, but I wanted to get some comments from the project first. -- Scorpion⁰⁴²² 05:34, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

• Suggest changing "...but the first alpine skiing events were held at..." to "...but the first alpine skiing events were not held until...".

• I prefer seeing full country names along with IOC codes, such as those produced by {{flagIOCmedalist}}. (See also MOS:ICON#Accompany flags with country names.)
• Table sorting does not work correctly when the table contains row spans (or column spans). I recommend removing the row spans.

I hope you find these comments useful. Feel free to ignore any suggestions that you disagree with. -- Tcncv (talk) 18:48, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Question What does everyone think of a format like this, that way you could sort by nation:

• No, actually this is one of the few cases I don't think sorting is necessary. Since everything is already split up between discipline and gender there are only sixteen or fewer rows per table; I don't see the need to add more columns just for the countries when there are so few rows. Anyway, the ties would screw it up.
• Everything should be linked to the specific event article, not to the "Alpine skiing at YEAR Winter Olympics". So the first cell of the first table should link to Alpine skiing at the 1948 Winter Olympics - Men's downhill instead of simply Alpine skiing at the 1948 Winter Olympics. That shouldn't be too hard to fix - Just add " - Men's downhill" or the relevant to each cell in the table.
  • I'll link what I can, but you have to remember that very few of the specific events have pages at the moment. -- Scorpion⁰⁴²² 00:15, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
    • It might be wise to link to the event specific articles anyway, and then add redirects to the more general articles where needed.
      • Most of them do, but those that don't can link to the section. Reywas92^Talk 01:40, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
• The ties in the Medals by nation table need to be changed to "17=" for all rows so it can be sorted.
  • Okily dokily. -- Scorpion⁰⁴²² 00:15, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
  • Overall it is an excellent list with an informative lead and I hope to see more like it coming soon! Reywas92^Talk 23:59, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

• Now that I look at the updated table, it does look kind of busy. I have no real objections to using {{flagIOCathlete}} for simplicity and consistency. I could go either way. I like that you took the time to use of {{sortname}}. By the way, I think you can also use sortname with {{flagIOCathlete}}, {{flagIOCmedalist}}, and other templates - just replace the "[[firstname lastname]]" "{{sortname|firstname|lastname}}" where needed. As for sorting and rowspan, I was referring to the Medals by nation table. The current wikibits javascript that does the table sorting doesn't recognize rowspan or colspan, and it doesn't adjust for them when looking up columns values to be sorted or to reformat the table after sorting. (This is on the wish list to be implemented one day, but not today.) -- Tcncv (talk) 00:30, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Another experiment What does everyone think of combining all 5 events into one table and having one for men and one for women. Alternatively, the current format could be used without the seperate nation column. Example:

OR

No, I prefer how it is already. And the current form conforms most to other medalist articles. Having separate columns for countries is way too crowded. I'm not completely opposed to merging the tables, but I don't see it necessary at all. Combining them doesn't effectively show that not all disciplines were competed every year. And again, the four ties completely screw up the sorting. Reywas92^Talk 01:40, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Proposed enhancements to table sorting (rowspan/colspan support)

Hello all. I've been working quite a bit with tables and noticed that one of the features that has been on the table sorting todo list is "don't break on colspans/rowspans (bug 8028)". Well. I've taken on the task and have put together an enhanced test version that implements rowspan and colspan support. To summarize, the enhancements do the following.

1. Before sorting, rowspans will be exploded, so that each row is self contained and can be moved without corrupting the table structure.
2. During sorting, colspans are recognized and counted when retrieving column values, so that the proper sort value is retrieved from each row. Each column in a colspan range is treated as having the same value. Colspans are preserved - they are not split.
3. After sorting, some cell ranges may be recombined under certain restrictive conditions (still being refined). Also, the class="autorowspan" option can be applied to column headers or the entire table to enable more aggressive rowspan combines, such as combining cells in the newly sorted column that were not originally combined.

To test the enhancements, you will need to add the statement importScript('User:Tcncv/sorttables.js'); to your User:Xxx/monobook.js file (or whatever skin you use). Some sample tables are located in User:Tcncv/Table Sort Demo. You can also test your own tables by copying them to a test page and changing the table class to "wikitable tcncv_sortable autorowspan". (The "autorowspan" can be left off the table class and added to the column header class attributes to fine tune the behavior.)

I will eventually submit this for format review by the code gurus in Bugzilla (which I expect to be a long and carefully reviewed process), but I'd like to get some preliminary informal feedback from you folks first. Please tell me what you think - especially if you would like to see the enhancements work a bit differently. Also, if you know of any tables with unusual formatting that could benefit from these enhancements, please let me know. I need some good examples..

Thank you. -- Tcncv (talk) 06:25, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

YOU ARE AMAZING! I have been waiting for this for a long time and your work on it is excellent! Thank you and I hope this is implemented Wiki-wide soon! The only thing that could be objected to is automatic merging of cells, which you noted. Reywas92^Talk 03:29, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Coordinators?

I was looking at WP:MILHIST and noticed that they have coordinators on their project. Why can't we? I say this because there are users who have preferences for certain sports and or different aspects of the Olympics, like the Olympic oath, the Olympic flame, nations at the Olympics (France at the Olympics), nations at specific Olympics (Canada at the 1972 Winter Olympics), sports at Olympics (Bobsleigh at the Winter Olympics), sports at specific Olympics (Canoeing at the 1996 Summer Olympics, athletes (Michael Phelps), venues (Lake Sagami), or a combonation of these. Considering the organization has improved, would it not be a good idea to start having people devoted to making certain as much of the Olympics is in as possible in Wikipedia? Thoughts on this? Chris (talk) 04:04, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Help!!

I'm in need of help. The Olympic Games article is up for FAC, one of the reviewers has asked for a page number for one of the references from David Young's The Modern Olympics: A Struggle for Revival. It is reference 3 in the article. I do not have access to this book so I will need someone who has this book to provide the page number for reference 3. I will be greatly in your debt if someone from the community can help with this. H1nkles (talk) 20:44, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

Paralympics taskforce/project

Would anyone be infavour/against a paralympics taskforce/wikiproject? Would anyone be interested in jioning such a taskforce/project? Anyone know the steps needed to go through for a taskforce/project? Waacstats (talk) 14:59, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Source of the article : Wikipedia